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  • I don’t think we need things like Tortall and Tortallan royal family listed as affiliations for the King of Tortall. Both of those are very obvious based on who he is. I think it should be used more for people that the characters are affiliated with that aren’t listed elsewhere in the infobox or for events not listed elsewhere in the box.

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    • I guess. I always saw it as an overarching sort of thing, mentioning groups of people as opposed to just childhood friends. Especially since Alex of Tirragen was certainly not affiliated with Jonathan before his death, and unless there are literally dates saying when exactly that affiliation ended, it doesn't work there. I can see the silliness of saying "Tortall" or "Tortallan royal family" though. Perhaps "Tortallan progressive faction"? Or choosing characters that are affiliated with Jon most recently? 

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    • Because two of those childhood friends mentioned are major players later on as well, I could see the point of adding them, and then in parentheticals saying (Commander of the King's Own) or (Second-in-command spymaster). Or we could also open up a section for "friends during page training" or whatever in the relationships section, and then have it link up in the infobox.

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    • It's the same for Gary of Naxen's page. Alex of Tirragen and Francis of Nond were both there, but Alex betrayed Tortall before his death, and Francis died when they were young. They could be added to Gary's relationship section at the bottom (because it's pretty sparse) but I don't think they belong in Affiliation, it's a bit misleading. 

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    • Affiliation doesn’t mean “friends” or “current relationships”, though perhaps a friends section could be added to the templates. And though you and I have read all the books, everyone coming here probably has not. Francis may have only been in one book and died early, but he was clearly tied to Raoul at least, as his “blond shadow” and is definitely “affiliated” with him. Affiliation is just a connection, good or bad, long or short. For example, I would consider Daine and the Graveyard Hag to be “affiliated” even though it was only for a few days a long time ago and only so Daine could destroy the Carthaki palace... or like Draco and Harry Potter: their stories are intertwined, and though they’re clearly not friends but enemies, when searching for one of them, people would most likely also search for the other.

      Perhaps sections for former friends, current friends, and enemies categories could be added to keep those separate from Affiliation. We need to have a clear consensus definition of what “affiliation” is so we don’t keep changing each other’s stuff moving forward because not only is that counterproductive but it leads to arguments we don’t need!

      What do you think about adding new categories to the infobox, perhaps under a “Other Relationships” heading to separate it from “Family” with friends and whatnot and have affiliation only be for groups or factions that one belongs to but aren’t covered elsewhere in the infobox?

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    • I know it doesn't necessarily mean "friends" but I honestly thought that's what you were going for (considering they all happen to be friends from childhood). And "affiliation" does have a positive connotation (not enemies) just because of the etymology. So yes, I think it's super misleading having enemies there with no explanation. And honestly, considering all the other characters (groups, enemies, and friends alike) that could be listed, Francis is a bit of a stretch. It's now been upwards of 30 years in-universe and I think the infobox should reflect the most recent information at least in that respect. 

      It can and should be mentioned in a relationships section though.

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    • The ideas for sections are good, but we don't want the infobox to be too crowded, which is why it's great to save a lot of that stuff for a relationships section. If we do that, it should only be their main antagonist/ally in the book. Like with Kel, I wouldn't put all of Joren's cronies there, but Joren would be fine; and then obviously Maggur and Blayce.

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    • A FANDOM user
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