Oh, I just wanted to see if editing the title would change anything. If it lets you post to my wall without the title filled in, but a title can be added later and the messages stay, instead of randomly disappearing like you mentioned earlier, then that would be a valid workaround if you really wanted to title the thread. Of course, I was the one who changed it this time, not you, so...
Hi Sarah. Because there seems to be agreement from the only two continually active members on this wiki haha, we should plan to revamp the page. We are both busy people (so neither of us could get this changed in a day) but it might be a good idea to first brainstorm what kind of stuff we would want. Is there anything from perusing other wikis on fandom that have a certain thing on their main page that you would want on ours?
For me, the featured article and the quote of the week templates that Purzel had are good ideas, we would just need to change them out more often to showcase different articles and different quotes.
I personally don't think we should even try to fix the links to show pictures in the revamp. Although it was cool, I think we should have actual pictures on the main page.
Madeline, I definitely think we should keep the quotes (though we should definitely update the list of ones used) and the article showcase. And I never really like the roll-over images anyway, especially using the site from my phone, it made navigating the main page a pain. I also think we should keep the list of pages in need of help, and we could put something there about adminship on the site for people who have questions about this particular wiki. Maybe like an admin blurb or something.
Pennydrdful, don’t worry about anything on the main page for right now until we decide what we are going to do with it. Messing with the code can really create problems. Mk101 and I had strange issues with coding when we were editing infoboxes. Just leave the main page alone for the time being. Feel free to offer suggestions on updates, however! Input on a revamp is more than welcome. :)
Sarah, I think Pennydrdful is just talking about removing specifically that code and that their work on other wikis shows that they know what they're doing when it comes to coding (probably way better than us to be honest). Since that would better the main page while we decide what we do with it, I think that would be great!
Alright, I took out all the rollover images on the Main Page. I double-checked everything and it appears to be working well, but if either of you notice any glitches, please just let me know.
As for ideas for revamping the main page... first, I would add some images right at the beginning. For example, a scrolling box of cover art or something. People are attracted to visually appealing things, not just walls of text. I think adding images up front could drive more traffic further into the wiki pages.
Second, I would take some of the features like "featured article" or "quote" and place them in a side navigation bar. That way they get more visiblity and will drive people to visit articles they otherwise wouldn't travel to. I also recommend the side bar because I feel like most people won't scroll down past the primary books/characters, and therefore never even see the other features.
That's just my two cents! Thanks for asking my opinion!
I agree about adding cover art first off. Do you both still like the color scheme? I believe it has been this was since 2009, but I'm happy to still work with it if we all like it. I agree about the featured article and quote features being moved to the side. I do think the "Where to start" feature should be more front and center. What do you think?
Where to start should definitely be easier to find and more at the forefront. And honestly, I’ve never really liked the purple... there are a number of blues in the theme designer that I’ve often thought might be better (I’ve never messed with them since we’ve never discussed a change in scheme). I always assumed it was originally set up as purple as some kind of Alanna connection...
Ha, so I wasn't actually going to mention the pruple, because I thought maybe it was just me. But apparently I'm not the only one it's been bugging. I like purple, purple's great. ...just maybe not that shade of purple. Maybe something a little less 'neon' purple. But if y'all want to ditch it altogether, I think blue would be a good choice!
Madeline, if it’s alright with you, I can go in and adjust the theme colors to see if we can find a color scheme that’s more to our liking. I really think blues could be very nice. Or we can stick with purple and maybe just change the shades a bit... and while we’re at it, a new header image to be more inclusive of the many series that now exist could be nice. I can put something together for that as well if you’re interested.
That would be great! Yeah, the purple is a little bit... strong. It doesn't bother me that much since I'm extremely used to it haha, but I'd be open to change. Feel free to mess around as you see fit, anything can be rolled back if stuff gets messed up.
One thing I do not want is white font on a dark background. Hurts my eyes, and it annoys me. But besides that, open to change.
Ok, so don't worry if the colors of the page change a few times this evening. I'm trying out some different combinations. Let me know if there's one you particularly like or if you absolutely hate any, and we can mix and match.
I was gonna say, I just checked and it looked the same. I like this one, but I think the grey could be a bit darker, it blends in too much with the background. You can put in custom colors using color codes for more options. That's how I got the blues I used.
I've undone the cream, but it's taking my browser a second to refresh it so I can see. I made the solid blue border a little wider as well. I think it will look nice with a blue glow. I can make the glow a bit darker...
Hey! Do you know if the Chioké from Tempests is the same as Ilom Chioké from Emperor Mage? I assume so but since usually masters are called by their first names (like Master Sebo and Master Cosmas), it breaks the mold. It also seems like he's undergone a complete character transformation.
It has been a long time since I’ve read Emperor Mage, but since she made a bunch of connections to previously books it’s a possibility. She sometime uses last names, I’ve seen “Master Salmalín” appear a couple times. Let me go back and look at EM and flip through T&S again and I’ll get you a more solid opinion. Just hold tight for a day or so before you make a new page. :)
Well, I noticed that while at the university it usually goes by "Master First Name" in general. And I have not seen the Master be tacked onto the surname at all in the book, if we're talking of the masters at the university. That's why I was confused.
It wouldn't be the first time she made a mistake on a character cross-series though, so I think they are likely the same person.
I'm just kind of bummed about T & S in general, and we have TWO more books before we get to anything else. We just really need an editor who loves T & S and also Battle Magic (because most of that is not done) to come and just do everything haha.
I don’t even know if I’ve read Battle Magic... I think I’ve read all the Circle Books one (certainly no more than that) but I’m not positive I’ve read them all... I know the most about the first Alanna books that I’ve read so many times that entire chapters are looseleaf and the books are held together with tape, and the Kel
books which I’ve read quite a few times as well (though I was severa years older at that point so the books are in better shape). :)
Yeah, I think they’re the same person. She totally changed Numair’s early magic, since when is a healer?!, and you know her math is off a lot... because no way did Roald’s YOUNGER brother have a son 15 years older than Jonathan (no king would marry off his younger son so much earlier than the heir and he have to be about 14 years old when Roger was born)... plus the dates for when George was born change from book to book, and Kel lost a year in Squire somewhere (I think I know where it happened actually, but I’m still messing with the Tortall Timeline).
It's weird too because the Chioké in EM is completely different personality-wise than the Chioké in TS. I'm so confused about it.
Battle Magic was a full-length prequel to Will of the Empress which did a lot of things I really didn't love. It erased what Briar said he experienced in the war, added a really weird narrative to Rosethorn's storyline, and then the entire book is basically meaningless because Tammy had the gods of the universe erase their memories about what happened. Honestly, this one was 10x more annoying than T & S.
I also have such a problem with prequels in general unless they take place far enough away from the main timeline that completely new things can be explored. I think the exploration of what happened between Arram and Ozorne could totally have been done in a book series that took place after the events of the Trickster Duology but with characters that are new (with some connections obviously) so it furthers the timeline. Like maybe Kalasin or Binur's younger sister or Sarai's children or something.
It seems more like she’s trying to explain what happens at the Carthaki University than what happened to Numair, though... that certainly could have been done in a book set later in time with a new mage character studying there. We already knew that Numair, Tristan, Ozorne, Gissa, and Varice knew each other from school, and haven’t really learned that much more about them, except that Numair and Ozorne were REALLY, REALLY close.
I think it would have been a much more interesting story had Sarralyn attended the University and we could have heard the stories that way as a father telling his daughter (or whatever Sarralyn actually is... his child) instead of as a prequel starring Numair. This may be an unpopular opinion, but Numair was never one of my favorite characters anyway.
I agree with your feelings on Numair. I think it's a lot less niche than you'd think. Other friends who have read the books have been less than thrilled with his character. I think Sarralyn definitely would have attended the Royal University though, since there's some patriotic pride to it now. But Sarai's children might be mages, what with Zaimid's bloodline; and the magic bloodline runs strong in both Kalasin AND Kaddar's lines so that would have been cool to have a book centered on them/their children to explain the same thing.
I definitely wish she moved on to the children of Kel's generation, including Neal's daughter and Sarralyn.
I wonder if it would be better/cleaner to organize the character lists on book pages by main character/royal and noble/commoner/scanrans/pages (category examples), etc. It would help make the lists more searchable for specific characters, and would look less bulky.
I'm fine with that. I just want to make sure all the characters are included! I'm still working on getting all the names in the lists, and can reorganize after they're all in there. :) You may also have noticed i haven't replaced the descriptions yet... I'm hoping to getting everyone in for SOTL and POTS this week, with descriptions and everything. It's easier to add the names in the order they appear, so I don't miss anyone, but I definitely agree that they'll be more easily searchable in categories! :D
Edit: I just got my hands on a copy of "Lioness Rampant" as well, so I'm going to finally finish citations to Alex's page, and then get back to fixing the character lists.
Edit2: I own (4) Immortals and (2) Tricksters as well, and "Cold Fire", but not any of the Hunt Records or the other Circle books to know who is and who isn't already on the site.
Part of why I'm listing all the characters is so we can see who is still missing pages (there are a few of them!) and can add them to the site. I don't think it will be necessary in the future to have everyone, but for the time-being, I think it can be useful to us.
I own them [the books], but it's easier for me to get them from the digital library so I can search for each occurrence of their name. I do know that the Circle Universe has less minor and filler characters than the Tortallan Universe.
edit: In fact, I recommend that technique if you haven't tried it yet! Usually libraries in the US are connected to some sort of online database like Overdrive or Hoopla (the latter is mostly audiobooks unfortunately) where you can download ebooks. It has made my wiki editing career 100% easier. (There is also the added benefit of no late fees)
I get digital copies all the time and use them for filling out character information (btw, it looks like you've been super busy creating new pages!) My libraries don't always have free copies, though. I don't currently have any out, but just searching for first occurance of names to lsit characters can just as easily be done with a book. :)
Oh I absolutely know that adding character names to a list can be done with a physical book, my suggestion had more to do with filling out character information so things don't fall through the cracks.
Btw, I've just (finally) finished my update to Alex's page, with the addition of the Lioness Rampant citations. Would you take a look through to proofread when you get a chance? I've gone through it several times now, but it doesn't hurt to have a second set of eyes. :) I'd like to add it to the Featured Articles list on the main page, but would like it to be guaranteed free from errors first!
The only problem I can see is in the section, "Knighthood" when it outright mentions Lioness Rampant in the biography. LR takes place around 437/38 right? Just use that date, and then put the mention of LR in the footnotes.
I think once the characters are created from each of the character lists, they should be organized by importance/status,etc. first, and then have the descriptions added. We can link to the category with every single character from the book below the main list, and warn that the new list is non-exhaustive at the top. Do you have any objections to that?
Also, do you think the very minor/only mentioned in passing characters should be added to the navboxes? To be honest, I don't really. I think it would clutter up the navboxes (especially if the character mentioned is not important to the narrative, which is what I mean by "in passing"), but they can feature in categories. Do you object to that? I suppose it's more of a case by case basis, if anything.
I think we really only need the main characters and those minor characters with some story influence in the character lists on the book pages once all the characters have their own individual pages. We don't, by any means, need every single character listed, as most people won't care at all about some author of some book mentioned once in passing by a character. For the POTS books, as an example, I think having Kel, her close friends and worst enemies, Jon/Thayet, Wyldon, Baird, and anyone else with major significance to the story can be in the list, with all other characters either in Navboxes (like the Sergeants in the Own) or not included at all. The Three Sorrows can definitely be included under that one title. I came across their individual names in the book first, and then the collective name, so that's why they're all there now. :)
With books like the first two about Alanna, that have so few characters anyway, and all names should be recognizable to readers, I think it makes sense to keep them all and just reorder them by importance. Also, I think one liner descriptions for the main book pages are enough. We don't need detailed paragraphs about each character because they'll be introduced in the book summary and all have much more detailed descriptions on their individual pages.
You can't blame me for thinking that you were planning to make individual pages for all of them, considering many minor/lesser/mentioned in passing characters are linked in the lists you have made. That's not a wide conjecture for me to make, considering that's the way it's always been. If you link it, it means you think a page should exist about it.
And I was asking about the navboxes? Not that only main characters should be on the book pages. One liner descriptions are fine. Personally, it looks good if the main characters at least have a bit more oomph to their description, however.
And in response to your last question, yes, link to specific categories about characters in specific books.
I think we're still having some miscommunication problems. I think that there should be individual pages for all of the characters, no matter how minor. The Three Sorrows can be lumped together if you want, but I will say the Ysandir have a collective page and individual pages, and the Horse Lords do as well.
I do not think that all the characters need to be left in the lists on the main book pages after their individual pages are made. Only the important/recognizable characters need included.
I know you were talking about navboxes - I agree that I don't think every single character needs to be in a navbox.
How about one-liner descriptions for all but the main three or four characters, who can get a small paragraph description on the book page?
I don't think we should use past-tense for inanimate objects, as they would still be constant in the universe. When the inanimate object is the subject, I think we should use present-tense. It is how it's been in most of the wiki (e.g. cities). It's only when it's the object, and the subject is a character, that I think it should be past-tense. (unless written in a book summary, which are always in the present)
That's fine. I just looked odd to me for half the article to be present and half to be past. Thought looking back the Gold Street page I created a few days ago, I made it half present and half past myself... I'll roll back the change I made to the Smiskir River page. It all makes sense now, ha. :)
That's ok. I was just wondering about what you thought was wrong with it when most of the other non-character pages are in present until you get to histories.
What helps is if you look at it from an in-universe perspective. For characters, everything has already happened, so past-tense. But non-characters are pretty stagnant and unchanging, unless indicated by the author. Personally, I think the introductions of character pages should be in present-tense (or a mix between the two) if they are Circle Universe characters or 5th century Tortallan Universe characters and are not dead, as in-universe perspective means they are still alive.
I think it should be more case-by-case really. If a character is still having their story be told, then present tense for the introduction is fine I think. But if they only appeared once, or only appeared a long time ago, or if they're dead (obviously), then I think intros should be past tense. I think the same should go for places that were only visited a while ago, or where all the events there have already taken place. This is the English in me, keeping everything in one consistent tense. For rivers, though, and for streets like Gold Street that I made, I think it should be fine to keep the first paragraph about location and whatnot in the present, and the second paragraph about events there in the past. Just don't mix the tenses in the same sentence or paragraph and I can handle that. :)
I added a few things to the family infobox: "deposition", "enthronement", and "founder". I'm wondering if "deposition" should be in the Establishment section or Background section, not Affiliation. I put it above events because I thought it made sense for them to go together, but I'm wondering if both fields should be in Background, or if there should be a separate header for History. Tell me what you think. Template:Family infobox
I'm not sure. I think probably separate, because it includes things that aren't directly related to the start of the line. Founder could definitely go in Establishment, though. Maybe put Deposition, Events, and Enthronement in History, right after the Establishment section, since enthronement is normally something that comes after ennoblement (which is the establishment of the noble family).
When I created the event infobox, I wasn't thinking in terms of colors just content, so it uses the same color scheme that the location infoboxes used to have. I think we should move away from that to make it more interesting. Do you think we should just have one all-encompassing color scheme for events, or should we split up color schemes by "wars", "crime", "disease", etc.
So, I did a bit of work on the Event infobox. For wars, I put a belligerent1 header, and belligerent2. I know in the Immortals War especially, there are several on one side, but if that happens then they should be lumped together in one section, belligerent1 or 2. By sides.
I also chose colors for all event infoboxes, and let me know if you like the color combo. See Scanran War for the use of the new infobox.
So I'm going to start fussing with the location infobox. I think there should definitely be coordinated colors based on type of location: the blue can stay for landforms or just bodies of water, but I was thinking of doing a white bg1, black fg1, and the bg2 can be based on what it is or just a random color. That way it's differentiated from the character infoboxes, and this can be a sitewide distinction, not based on universe.
Is that too similar to the Circle Mages with white background and colored subheadings? I like the idea of different colors for different types of places, though. I suggested colored bg1, and silver bg2 for the families, maybe do the opposite here: silver bg1, and colored bg2?
You could have blues for bodies of water, greens for landforms, tans/browns for cities/towns/forts, purples for palaces or places like the Sunset Room.
I'm working on trying a scheme for the family infobox colors. Do you like pale color + black name, or pale color + white name better? I tried dark colors with white names, but they just didn't look right with the gray subheadings underneath.
I think that maybe instead of simply a location field, that it should be broken into "country", "region", "district", "city/town", "street", "body of water", "mountain range", "area". What do you think (could you some but not all)? Do you think it should just stay as "location" and then just whatever it is, whether country, street, ocean, can go in that line?
Any suggestions for fields to add to the family infobox template? I'm working on that one now.
I thought about doing "area" but since I don't know the exact area, I thought it would be awkward, so I just stuck to size.
Maybe "establishment"/"creation date" as well for the family infobox? Or something about the Books of Nobility if applicable. "Heir apparent", "current head of family", "first head of family"(when established)
I would definitely have a nationality field as well. I know origin is there, but I always thought that was more about nationality than creation, but it's up to you.
For the Corus location infobox, it would probably be better to separate the legitimate kings from the rogues. Perhaps under the "head of state" field have another, separate, field for "king of theives".
What do you think of the one for fiefs that I added? I know you won't be back until later, so I'll hold off editing fief infoboxes. Should it be a more brilliant purple or pink? Should it be crimson and Military can be something else?
I've played a few Sporcle quizzes of the years. What I like about funtrivia is that there are teams that compete together, so there's a sense of community with team message boards and chat/forum spaces and things. There are also times and untimed quizzes and logic puzzles. I love logic puzzles.